A
former minister of women's affairs describes Afghanistan's historical
transformations
Sima
Samar, a former minister of women's affairs in Afghanistan, is interviewed by
NPR's Ayesha Rascoe. In the four-part PBS documentary "Afghanistan: The Wounded
Land," she is one of the voices heard.
Since
American troops withdrew from Afghanistan about a year ago, the Taliban now
rule the nation. Furthermore, for many, the discussion of the nation's current
state begins with the September 11 attacks and the ensuing American invasion of
that year. But the country's current dilemma has even older origins.
The
growth of Islamic fundamentalism in Afghanistan started in the late 1960s when
the youth in Kabul dreamed of a socialist revolution and Kabul's elite adopted
a Western way of life.
RASCOE:
Following that revolution, a decade-long Soviet occupation and communist rule
followed. The nation was the setting for a proxy conflict between the United
States and the former Soviet Union, which led to the funding of a civil war,
the Taliban's founding, and the establishment of al-Qaida. "Afghanistan:
The Wounded Land," a new four-part PBS documentary series that premieres
today, brings all of this history to life with a wealth of archive footage.
Sima Samar, a human rights activist and former minister of women's affairs for
Afghanistan, joins us today. Sima is a participant in the series. Welcome.
SAMAR,
SIMA: I sincerely appreciate it.
RASCOE:
You lived in an Afghanistan that was incredibly different as a child and medical
school student. Can you describe Afghanistan and what you believed would happen
to your life there?
SAMAR:
Yes. Afghanistan was a small, impoverished nation, but there were never any
fanatics or fundamentalists of this calibre there. So when I was younger, I
attended a coeducational school. I'm 66 years old now. Therefore, suppose that
in Helmand, an extremely traditional region where girls are currently
prohibited from attending school, there was coeducation for boys and girls 60
years ago.
RASCOE:
You mentioned in the documentary—which I found to be quite interesting—that
both the Soviets and the mujahedeen who opposed the Soviets exploited women as
a political instrument during the Soviet occupation. Can you provide us with some
background on that?
SAMAR:
Yes, I believe the Soviets attempted to utilise the slogan "women
cannot be free" when they arrived. And they preferred that women appear
more frequently on stage to actually develop their potential. subsequently
attempted to impose the women's literacy course via force. The populace opposed
it as it moved to the conservative neighbourhoods. The mujahedeen, however,
were adamantly opposed to women participating in any capacity. Education
received no attention, despite my personal opinion that destroying a country's
educational system is the surest way to do it.
RASCOE:
You ultimately relocated to Pakistan from Afghanistan. How challenging was that
choice for you?
SAMAR:
Well, I had to leave Kabul for safety, so that made things really difficult. As
a result, I spent 17 years as a refugee in Pakistan. Then, in Pakistan, I began
working on some additional initiatives, like managing clinics for kids and
women. Then I created a school for girls, specifically refugee girls. What I
actually did was open the boys' school first. I then replied, "If you
don't send your daughters, then I'm not going to support solely the boys’
schools," after realising that the people were interested.
RASCOE:
WOW. That was a method of obtaining the…
SAMAR:
Yes.
RASCOE:
To persuade them to carry it out, yes.
SAMAR: To
Convince Them
RASCOE:
Wow, to convince them. A new government was established in Afghanistan after
American forces drove out the Taliban. You're starting from scratch after being
appointed minister of women's affairs. You claimed that you didn't even have a
destroyed office to return to. The office was vacant. So where do you even
begin with that?
RASCOE:
My goodness. Run this bureau from there with that, they then say.
SAMAR:
Undoubtedly.
RASCOE:
Ok.
SAMAR:
However, I encountered a lot of opposition because I demanded justice,
accountability, and an end to the culture of impunity. People who worked in the
government didn't like that at all.
RASCOE: What
comes to mind when you witness the Taliban's comeback, girls being barred from
secondary schools, women being excluded from positions of authority, and all of
these extremely stringent laws about women being reinstated?
SAMAR:
Assume that there is a non-violent response to all of this tyranny from the
females who are currently forbidden from leaving their homes or continuing
their education, but who know they will be punished because of the education
they received. After 20 years, despite all of our sacrifices, we turned
everything over to the Taliban.
RASCOE:
During the course of the series, you once issued a pretty stern warning. We may
even have a video of it.
SAMAR:
None of the individuals on the plane who killed more than 3,000 people in New
York by committing suicide was Afghan. They were all not Afghan. They have all
lived in Afghanistan. And why did that occur? Afghanistan was overlooked, thus.
There is also no assurance that it won't occur if Afghanistan is overlooked and
left alone once more.
RASCOE:
Do you believe that the world community has learned the lesson from decades ago
to never forget Afghanistan?
SAMAR:
We saw the justifications for leaving Afghanistan in the 1990s. I'm worried
that Afghanistan will once again become a haven for violent extremist and
terrorist groups to organise. The Taliban won't be able to keep it under
control, in my opinion.
RASCOE:
That is Sima Samar, a former minister for women's issues in Afghanistan. In the
four-part PBS documentary "Afghanistan: The Wounded Land," she is one
of the voices heard. We appreciate you taking the time to talk with us today.
SAMAR:
I'm grateful.